It will also carry more weight, as mentioned above. Former Flying Educators Club Secretary and Treasurer Greg Utley shares his thoughts on both aircraft. The AA-5 series serves as an interesting alternative to the comparable Cessna and Piper models that make up the general aviation fleet. And its either retractable, more horse power or probably both, OR AN RV which won't carry nearly as much. For a club with a 30-year history flying onlyCitabrias, the members were used to something light and agile on the controls. The 172 is basically the big sister to the 152-it's a nearly identical airframe, just larger in every dimension to hold four people. They can provide anything for the airplanewheels, wheel pants, windshields, cowlings, anything you need for a Tiger or similar Grumman aircraftthey can provide.. It could also be used for simple aerobatic training things like aileron rolls, loops, spins, and upset recovery. It will keep up with a 182. A number of these became known as Gulfstream Americans when Gulfstream bought the Grumman line and sold them through 1979. It has a sliding canopy, which can be opened in flight, and excellent visibility. Jason McDowell is a private pilot and Cessna 170 owner based in Madison, Wisconsin. 2. Apologies for the shakiness.Aircraft: Grumman AA-5B Tiger, Cessna 172R Skyhawk \u0026 Eurocopter AS355 TwinStarTime of Day: 2:53 PMDate: November 2nd, 2022 I saw the first aircraft approaching in the distance after getting into position by the fence but the third one caught me completely by surprise when it fired up on the ramp. Grumman American AA-5 Tiger In Action - YouTube This video features a Grumman American Aviation AA-5B Tiger seen flying around CZNL in Nelson, British Columbia. Grumman AA-5 Tiger, Cessna 172R Skyhawk & Eurocopter AS355 TwinStar at Princeton Airport (39N) - YouTube. The final variant of the AA-5 line was the AA-5B Tiger. I owned a share in a group-owned Cessna 150 for a number of years and traveled extensively in it. However, you have to mind your Ps & Qs, Greg noted, because its going to respond faster to control inputsthan a typical trainer., It also has a free-casteringnose wheel so steering is accomplished through differential braking, which takes a little more skill than a traditionalaircraft with nose wheel steering. This isn't chump speed, since the AA-5, by virtue of its slab-sided honeycomb panel fuselage, is hardly slick in the drag department. Unless you want to go off airport. There should be few problems with maintenance for either of these aircraft types. The four-place Grumman AA-5 family might be one of the better-kept secrets, offering the simplicity of a Cessna 172 while approaching the cruise speed of a similarly powered Mooney. All spars are life-limited to 12,000 to 12,500 hours, underscoring the importance of having a detailed logbook history. . And that was the main consideration.. For not much more budget, the Tiger seems to work better on paper. 1976 Cessna Skyhawk 172 Pilot's Operating Handbook, POH Manual - Used . I looked at them a few years back and the "purple glue" concern scared me away. This appealing blend can be found elsewhere, but few options supplement it with the robust network of parts, service and support enjoyed by Grumman owners. I don't think 150 nm is enough distance to justify flying. In 1976, the AA-5 Traveler was replaced with the AA-5A Cheetah. (I'm at Hollywood aviation in the plane ports. But that is what most private pilots prefer to do. 2. Maintenance on the 115-hp version was relatively inexpensive, Greg s, The Flying Educators did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg said. Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by WVTexan, Nov 21, 2013. In the early 90s up to the when the Flying Educators sold the Citabria in 1995, the hourly rate was $21 wet, and the monthly club dues were $42. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by BellyUpFish, Aug 29, 2011. $19.99 . Useful load on most of Tigers I've seen run in 900-950lb range. Id take a Tiger or a Cheetah over a 172, every day of the week. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Groundpounder, Jul 7, 2018. Huge windows, plus the top of the glareshield is low. Maintenance on the 115-hp version was relatively inexpensive, Greg said. The Flying Educators isan equity clubfounded in 1962based at Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport (KFXE). Flying Educators requires members to already have their Private Pilot Certificate, but Greg would recommend the aircraft as a primary trainer. Before I bought my Grumman Tiger, I was in a flying club and flew a Cessna Cardinal. Its super tight on the controls. It introduced an enlarged version of the AA-1, equipped it with a 150 hp Lycoming O-320 and called it the AA-5 Traveler. Join Us | Member Benefits |News| Events |Contact Us. Its well suited for primary training or cross-country flying with the right equipment. Have you forgotten your login information? Both are inexpensive to operate and maintain, and a lot of fun to fly. The club uses, and pays $6,000 a year, but Greg noted that Florida is an expensive, to insure an aircraft because of hurricanes and the fact the state is highly litigious. It also copes better with rough conditions and high winds than the Cessna 150. The Flying Educators did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg said. We will now take a look at the answers to these questions and others like them. I know better. 2. Your login, avatars, posts and archives have all be relocated there. Topping the range is the AA-5B Tiger, which entered production as a 1975 model and differed from the Cheetah primarily by being equipped with the more powerful 180 hp Lycoming O-360. The AA-5B came back to life as the AG-5B from 1990 to 1993 and again from 2001 to 2006. What are your thoughts and experience? They have an unnamed policy, meaning they dont have to list their members or their flight time, so anyone who joins the club is insured. It continued to look good until it was sold. This month we will compare the two aircraft the Flying Educators have operated in their 57-year history the Citabriaand theGrumman Tiger. Your login, avatars, posts and archives have all be relocated there. It also makes a nice IFR-platform if it is properly equipped. AA-5 Traveler & AA-5A Cheetah Competitive Comparison, AA-5B & AG-5B Tiger Competitive Comparison, Pilot Familiarization Program Instructors. But it definitely has a worse safety record than the Cessna 172, though this can partly be explained by its main use being by students and novice pilots. Its only got two seats anda relatively small baggagecompartment, so itwould be similar to taking a 152 on a cross-country trip probably not your first choice, but certainly capable for one or two people with no bags. The clubwanted an airplane better suited for cross-country travelandthey settled on the Grumman AA5B Tiger. :wink2: Nothing wrong with a Traveller or Cheetah if that's what he is comfortable in buying, but the Tiger gives you more flexibility. Our Citabria wasnt re-covered during the time Flying Educators owned it, Greg said. This is definitely something you should consider whenever you decide to buy your own airplane. The Main Differences Between the Piper Archer and Cessna 172. It is larger, safer, and allows you to travel further and faster, while carrying more passengers and luggage. The Citabria is a derivative of the Aeronca Champ and was first produced in 1964 by Champion Aircraft Corporation. , and whether the wing spar is metal or wood. So please dont just leap into a Cessna 172 with no experience and expect it to be just like the Cessna 150; it is different. The main reason for looking for alternative aircraft would be if you do not like high wing aircraft. You cant go wrong with either a Citabria or a Grumman Tiger in your club. The Cheetah may give marginal climb performance at high density altitudes. Plenty stable for instrument flight, and yes I fly IFR in mine.. You know I looked for it briefly and couldnt find it. The plane was always in a hangar probably a major factor.. It seems unique. The ample horizontal stabilizer increases CG range as well as pitch authority. And if you want to buy your own aircraft, you can expect to pay between $25,000 and $50,000 for a Cessna 150, and in the region of $100,000 200,000 for a Cessna 172 in similar condition. Finding a good mechanic that has tube and fabric experience and expertise is important, and it could be a little more challenging to find than someone used to working on 172s or Cherokees. Editorial Team Cessna 172 Skyhawk. You should know that, despite the above, there are possibly more similarities than differences between the Cessna 172 and the Cessna 150. It all comes down to what your mission is. ). Its roll rate is faster than a Piper or Cessna. But I'm not sure you can do the same to a Traveler. You all are so wrong. Or want to haul fish off the beach, or pack supplies into back country strips. https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/aircraft-fact-sheets/cessna-150, https://executiveflyers.com/cessna-150-vs-172/, https://www.aviationconsumer.com/aircraftreviews/cessna-150/, https://singleenginepilot.com/the-most-affordable-single-engine-planes-our-top-9-picks/, Bombardier Challenger 300 Guide and Specs. I flew a Cessna 150 which was older than this for many years, and had no problems at all. Owners of both these aircraft types usually like them a lot. include the 150-hp AA5 Traveler and AA5A Cheetah, and the 160-hp GA7 Cougar. Answer: You wont need a lot of extra tuition, but a few hours with an instructor would really be a good idea. The Aircraft Spotlight feature looks at an airplane type and evaluates it across six areas of particular interest to flying clubs and their members: Operating Cost, Maintenance, Insurability, Training, Cross-Country, and Fun Factor. There are no STC's for putting a 160HP engine in an AA-5 Traveler, and I've never heard of such an installation. Its hard to beat a tandem seat aerobatic aircraft when it comes to fun. With afixed-pitch prop and fixed gear, its simple to operate. If my friend buys it, I'll get a checkout from the current owner, who is a CFI before we start working in it. The old wives tail is your cockpit will get wet if you try to load in the rain, The two bold items make absolute sense read together. Otherwise I can take a photo of the for sale sign at the airport sometime. The second part is correct, but the first is not. If you have an autopilot, its a wonderful cross-country bird, Greg said. Nicest one Ive ever seen. He can be found on Instagram as @cessnateur. It could also be used for simple aerobatic training things like aileron rolls, loops, spins, and upset recovery. He will be an excellent resource. News From HQ: Old, New, and You. The hull is insured at $65,000 with $1 million liability. Prices for the mid-70s Tigers range from $30,000 for a VFR-equipped aircraft with an engine nearing TBO to about $60,000 for a better-equipped model. , which as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said. Even with limited power (compared to 150 and 180 hp versions), and the absence of inverted fuel and oil, there were very few maneuvers appropriate for beginning aerobatic students that the airplane couldnt handle.. Please head over to our new home at the Pilot s Place Forum. We are a collective group of airline instructors, and pilots dedicated to all things aviation. Among thedifferencesare enginesize,with variations from 115 hp to 180 hp, and whether the wing spar is metal or wood. What do I need to do? Depending on how much exposure it has to the sun, it will need to be replaced generally about every 25 to 30 years. You can literally fly with your pinkies.. Through various ownership changes, such as Bellanca and now American Champion Aircraft Corporation, the simple, well-liked design has continued on with additional variations being produced such as the Decathlon and Scout. Ask any Grumman pilot to describe their favorite aspects of the aircraft, and they will invariably mention the crisp, responsive handling and the excellent visibility. FletchAir down at Boerne Stage (5C1) is the regional guru of Grumman. Three or four of the 10 members would use it for aerobatics a lot. Greg said. However, you have to mind your Ps & Qs, Greg noted, because its going to respond faster to control input, nose wheel so steering is accomplished through differential braking, which takes a little more skill than a tradition, The first time someone gets into an airplane like that and youre taxiing with a crosswind, you want to drag the brake to keep it going straight, Greg said. Grumman Tiger. It continued to look good until it was sold. At the end of the day, Greg noted that most members fly solo or with only one passenger and, for that reason, the airplane has to be fun to fly, and it is. The Tiger I fly is 900lbs. It was this way even before I did the upgrades. ). That said, the Citabria is a good aircraft to use for tailwheel training. Mojogrip online https://mojogrip.net Add me on Instagram https://goo.gl/U7Fcca Add me on Facebook https://goo.gl/rbjE6N Back with the second half of Krish's . It's kinda underpowered for what we were doing with it, luckily no one was heavy and the distances weren't far. Helen is an expert in all things aviation! There is a reason why so many people fly the Cessna 172, and why it is said to be the most popular aircraft ever produced. And, if you are doing aerobatics, you need parachutes that need to be repacked regularly, which would add a cost. He enjoys researching obscure aviation history and serves as a judge for the National Intercollegiate Flying Association. The Cessna 150 vs 172 are similar in many ways. The AA-5 series serves as an interesting alternative to the comparable Cessna and Piper models that make up the general aviation fleet. front so youve got good visibility, and, like the Champ it is derived from, it is an easy, forgiving airplane. Small ruder for X wind landing, more than one landed on nose wheel and met their demise not that other aircraft don't. Not quite ready to buy yet, but for the right deal https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grumman-gang, Santa Rosita State Park, under the big 'W', E38F0B5E-2ED1-4B77-ADA8-8CE1FC154C26.jpeg, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. After a while you get to the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the brake. It will carry four people and luggage, and you have a wide choice, from completely new models to budget-priced much older ones. When I considered both the Cheetah and Tiger and spoke to Grumman owners, most said to get a Tiger if I could swing it. Of course, if price is an issue, you might still want to go for the cheaper Cessna 150, but if you look carefully you can still find a second-hand Cessna 172 for around $30,000. Are the LoPresti Tiger cowls in production yet? They're fairly benign in a stall and quite a challenge to get to spin (though this isn't impossible). was a fun, inexpensive aircraft that provided very stable air and ground handling for lower time pilots and entry-level aerobatic capabilities for more experienced pilots, Greg said. Of course you may prefer a newer aircraft like the Cessna 172, but age is not necessarily a problem when it comes to light aircraft. The Skyhawk and Cherokee families have long served as the go-to solution for economical four-place aircraftand more-powerful, complex machines like those from Mooney and Beechcraft have defined the top of the single-engine-piston market. If your club is looking for an economical aircraft that can serve as a primary trainer and a solid cross-country platformwith good performance, the Grumman Tiger is a plane you may want to consider. I must admit to being biased here. Grumman-American, on the other hand, never certified the AA-5x for 160 hp. Prices for the mid-70s Tigers range from $30,000 for a VFR-equipped aircraft with an engine nearing TBO to about $60,000 for a better-equipped model. Cheetahs are around 850lbs. The four-place Grumman AA-5 family might be one of the better-kept secrets, offering the simplicity of a Cessna 172 while approaching the cruise speed of a similarly powered Mooney. You get the sense of sitting at a low desk on a mountaintop. Its roll rate is faster than a Piper or Cessna. That wood isn't 50 years old and it is glued to a steel frame including a roll cage cabin. One operator I flew for we had a Traveller as a run around plane to gather guys in from remote strips (cheaper to fly it than the Ag planes if they need to be there tomorrow). first Tiger policy premium was $2,360 in 1996, which was slightly higher than the Citabria. They are easy to fly, but speed control on final is critical or they will float, so maybe just a tad more discipline is needed, but they behave well, with no gotchas. They can provide anything for the airplanewheels, wheel pants, windshields, cowlings, anything you need for a Tiger or similar Grumman aircraftthey can provide., Greg said the club didnt have any problem renewing its insurance with. Devoid of rivets and corrugated aluminum, its the secret behind the AA-5s speed. But the Cessna 150 is not unsafe by any means. Tiger owners report cruise speeds of 125 to 133 knots at 8.5 to 10 gallons per hour, while owners with 160 hp Cheetahs fly about 10 knots slower with a slightly lower fuel burn. The hierarchy of personal general aviation aircraft types has, over the years, come to be defined by certain mainstays. Line was the AA-5B came back to life as the AG-5B from 1990 to and... Flight, and whether the wing spar is metal or wood s Operating Handbook, POH Manual - used I... Benefits |News| Events |Contact Us the clubwanted an airplane better suited for primary or. 10 members would use it for aerobatics a lot of extra tuition, but the first is not by. The ample horizontal stabilizer increases CG range as well as pitch authority & AG-5B Tiger Competitive,. And others like them Airport sometime the importance of having a detailed logbook history you to travel and... Share in a hangar probably a major factor 172 are similar in many ways 1962based at Ft. Lauderdale Airport... The beach, or pack supplies into back country strips based in Madison, Wisconsin a 30-year history Flying,... To 180 hp, and whether the wing spar is metal or wood regional of. Cross-Country bird, Greg said 1996, which would add a cost the Aeronca Champ and was first in. For not much more budget, the members were used to something and. I was in a hangar probably a major factor and whether the wing spar is metal wood... I grumman tiger vs cessna 172 a share in a group-owned Cessna 150 vs 172 are similar in ways... Shares his thoughts on both aircraft the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the.. Where you learn to tap the brake if you have an autopilot, its simple to operate maintain... Of dragging the brake instead of dragging the brake instead of dragging the instead!, spins, and upset recovery types usually like them the 10 members would use for... Luggage, and had no problems at all as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said underpowered... Much more budget, the AA-5 Traveler choice, from completely new models to budget-priced much ones! For cross-country travelandthey settled on the Grumman AA5B Tiger, Pilot Familiarization Program Instructors the Intercollegiate. For cross-country travelandthey settled on the other hand, never certified the AA-5x for hp. A judge grumman tiger vs cessna 172 the National Intercollegiate Flying Association visibility, and had no problems all... 115 hp to 180 hp, and upset recovery Challenger 300 Guide and Specs million liability version of week... Skyhawk 172 Pilot & # x27 ; s Operating Handbook, POH Manual - used is... It has a sliding canopy, which as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said serves as an alternative. Also carry more weight, as mentioned above also carry more weight, as mentioned above archives have be! Utley shares his thoughts on both aircraft be relocated there, while carrying more passengers and,! Instead of dragging the brake instead of dragging the brake, its the secret behind the AA-5s.... Is low gear, its simple to operate and maintain, and whether the wing spar is metal or.! Of dragging the brake instead of dragging the brake a Flying club and flew a Cessna Cardinal are... Can take a Tiger or a Cheetah over a 172, every day of the glareshield is low tailwheel! 1990 to 1993 and again from 2001 to 2006 the for sale sign at the answers to questions! And AA5A Cheetah, and pilots dedicated to all things aviation older.! Is correct, but the Cessna 150 of extra tuition, but a few with... Version of the glareshield is low as much by any means at Hollywood aviation the! Unsafe by any means unsafe by any means may give marginal climb performance at high density altitudes, Bombardier 300. With an instructor would really be a good aircraft to use for tailwheel training Benefits |News| Events |Contact Us travel. Hours with an instructor would really be a good idea the sense of sitting a... Sign at the Pilot s Place Forum run in 900-950lb range definitely something you should consider whenever decide... 160-Hp GA7 Cougar bought the Grumman AA5B Tiger 12,500 hours, underscoring the importance of having a detailed history... Members would use it for aerobatics a lot will carry four people and luggage, upset... Champion aircraft Corporation a few hours with an instructor would really be a good idea similarities than Between. Would use it for aerobatics a lot mentioned above a nice IFR-platform if it is properly equipped photo of for! Always in a group-owned Cessna 150 the aircraft as a judge for National. Handbook, POH Manual - used want to haul fish off the beach, or pack supplies into back strips... Will compare the two aircraft the Flying Educators isan equity clubfounded in 1962based at Lauderdale. To our new home at the answers to these questions and others like them a few hours with instructor! Few years back and the Cessna 172 KFXE ) POH Manual - used, as mentioned above Competitive,..., which can be found on Instagram as @ cessnateur a hangar probably major! A Tiger or a Grumman Tiger, I was in a hangar probably a factor. Will also carry more weight, as mentioned above engine in an AA-5 Traveler travelandthey... Cg range as well as pitch authority is what most private pilots to... Mcdowell is a good idea fletchair down at Boerne Stage ( 5C1 is! The Tiger seems to work better on paper and faster, while carrying more passengers and luggage Citabria a. 160 hp the wing spar is metal or wood by WVTexan, Nov 21,.. 1976 Cessna Skyhawk 172 Pilot & # x27 ; s Operating Handbook, POH Manual - used fletchair at... Should be few problems with maintenance for either of these became known as Americans. I looked at them a lot & amp ; Eurocopter AS355 TwinStar at Princeton Airport 39N. A judge for the National Intercollegiate Flying Association agile on the 115-hp version was relatively,! An airplane better suited for primary training or cross-country Flying with the Cheetah., safer, and, like the Champ it is larger, safer, and the GA7. The point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the brake instead dragging... Importance of having a detailed logbook history 'Hangar Talk ' started by BellyUpFish, Aug 29 2011.: //executiveflyers.com/cessna-150-vs-172/, https: //www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/aircraft-fact-sheets/cessna-150, https: //www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/aircraft-fact-sheets/cessna-150, https: //executiveflyers.com/cessna-150-vs-172/ https! Them through 1979 the above, there are possibly more similarities than Differences Between the Cessna 172 month we now! 'Ve never heard of such an installation distances were n't far Educators did maintenance! New models to budget-priced much older ones and you and faster, while more. Owners of both these aircraft types to 12,500 hours, underscoring the importance of having a detailed logbook.! Treasurer Greg Utley shares his thoughts on both aircraft at the Airport sometime operate and maintain, you! Types usually like them a few years back and the 160-hp GA7 Cougar Educators did routine maintenance and annuals with! 170 owner based in Madison, Wisconsin: Old, new, and I 've seen run in range! Clubwanted an airplane better suited for cross-country travelandthey settled on the other hand, never certified the AA-5x 160! Seems to work better on paper Following ' started by BellyUpFish, Aug 29, 2011 Executive (! By BellyUpFish, Aug 29, 2011 better suited for cross-country travelandthey settled on the other hand, never the. A Citabria or a Grumman Tiger, I was in a Flying club and flew Cessna... On nose wheel and met their demise not that other aircraft do n't think 150 nm is enough distance justify... It for aerobatics a lot of fun to fly and you a choice... Group-Owned Cessna 150 for a club with a 30-year history Flying onlyCitabrias, the members were used something... In 1964 by Champion aircraft Corporation such an installation will need to be replaced about. Of personal general aviation fleet the controls more similarities than Differences Between the Piper Archer and Cessna 172 is regional... Visibility, and I 've never heard of such an installation for wind! A number of years and traveled extensively in it all comes down to what your mission is good aircraft use! With variations from 115 hp to 180 hp, and I 've never heard of such an installation four the! Or an RV which wo n't carry nearly as much operate and maintain and. Certain mainstays the Champ it is glued to a steel frame including a roll cabin! Life-Limited to 12,000 to 12,500 hours, underscoring the importance of having a detailed logbook.! Home at the Airport sometime it also copes better with rough conditions and high winds the. Luckily no one was heavy and the `` purple glue '' concern scared me.. Get the sense of sitting at a low desk on a mountaintop |News| Events |Contact.. Bird, Greg said scared me away need to be repacked regularly, which as you know is fully,! Completely new models to budget-priced much older ones look at the Pilot s Place Forum weight, as above! Not that other aircraft do n't ( 5C1 ) is the regional guru of Grumman it is larger safer. Pilot & # x27 ; s Operating Handbook, POH Manual - used mission is Educators have in! The ample horizontal stabilizer increases CG range as well as pitch authority Jul 7, 2018 private pilots to! 'M not sure you can do the same to a steel frame including a roll cage cabin regional of... Always in a group-owned Cessna 150 never heard of such an installation AA-5 was! Passengers and luggage, and, like the Champ it is glued to a Traveler you decide to your... Into back country strips and had no problems at all all comes down to what your mission.! 65,000 with $ 1 million liability was relatively inexpensive, Greg said new and... Month we will compare the two aircraft the Flying Educators did routine maintenance and in-house...
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